This Dangerous Site!
I received this the other night, and since I’ve received a few of these over the years, thought I would post it and my thoughts on it. You’re welcome to chime in.
—–Original Message—–
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 2:15 AM
Subject: [XKEDATA]
==========
this site should be closed down ,if any one wants to clown a car ,they will start here by typing in a chassis number and if no details come up ,bingo lets build a car
Is that easier than just finding a crappy restoration project somewhere to get a set of real numbers, including legit title documents?
If not, why would the criminals care if the car was on the site before making their clown, er, clone? Just because a car isn’t here doesn’t mean it’s missing; indeed, there have been around ten already-existing clones discovered via these sites. (Most of the time it doesn’t seem all that malicious, just sloppy record-keeping.)
It would cost at least $100,000 to build a car from scratch via parts if you had to pay for the labor. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to buy a decent one? The only cars that might be exceptions to this are the very rare variants–but the survivors and the fate of their siblings are generally well-known, anyway, and will come under pretty intense scrutiny if a new one resurfaces.
Puzzled,
Roger
On the contrary, this site is actually likely to help catch a clone or dubious car. Having the information in the public eye and seen by some of the experts that visit this site will far more likely flush out a clone or fraud than not having it. I would love to see the concept of this site available for many more makes and models.
Comment by Bryce — February 16, 2011 @ 8:10 am
This is a great site. I personally only add cars that are original, but I guess it’s okay if someone changed their car in some way as long as they have a valid VIN and title.
Comment by William W. Bush — February 24, 2011 @ 2:41 pm
Thanks Bryce,
That has been my thoughts for years, its like Carfax for our old cars. As Roger implies the cars are not yet so rare or valuable that cloning would be justified. Cloning or messing with numbers in any way is taken very seriously, probably jail time. Risk jail for a few $k to buy a failed project or rust bucket, I think not.
Comment by pauls — March 26, 2011 @ 9:45 pm
Hi,
Yes, I agree 100% with the opinion that this site actually helps to prevent frauds.
Besides nowadays if you want a JDT certificate you will have to provide the numbers and more likely also photographic evidence of the numbers as found, especially if it’s a more valuable car.
And without these sites I would not know about the C-type stolen in the 1970′s, or some other stolen cars that have reappeared elsewhere, historic racers sharing vin#s with historic road cars in another country etc.
Also I have been able to locate some old cars and their owners who in most cases have been happy about getting some history and old photos of their cars. Thanks to Jag-Lovers I was also able to get in touch with a previous owner of my MKV DHC and get the original commission plate back, wow!
Cheers!
Comment by Pekka T. — March 29, 2011 @ 12:35 am
I think the guy proved it when he said clown a car.
with out sites like this where will all the data be in 20 years time.
I have had the same comments re my Cabriolet Register albeit very few.
What I point out is that from a registration number spotted on the road side one Text will give you a Vin
From then its easy to get all the required details.no need to come here.
So keep up the good work and dont worry about CLOWNS.
Comment by bleasie — April 20, 2011 @ 7:59 am
Roger,
Have you reached a decision on the validity of my name plate for vehicle 1E16178? I am honestly trying to rationalize the reason for the apparent duplication.
Comment by Fred Bartlett — April 27, 2011 @ 9:35 pm
Hi Roger,
I personally do not understand the mentality of some folks. If you have a 100 dollar bill and the serial number from the bill, are you going to “Clone ” it. Duh. Ofcourse not, it simply is too difficult to reproduce the paper, printing and the hidden watermarks. Given the mumbers from the data plate and the build date from JDHT, is someone going to “Clone an E Type!” ?
Duh! Again…. No!
In order to make such an event even remotely possible, one must possess a replacement model in the first place. Why destroy or change a workable prodject car to simply copy another?
It simply makes no sense at all. Change the numbers on an engine block? Change the numbers on the head? Change the numbers on the gearbox just to meet another cars specs?
All this to “Clone” some other car. It is simply a rediculous suggestion.
I have been turned down requesting data plate information from later models of 2+2′s to assist my production schedule. The owner thought someone would clone his 2+2. My god!
Collecting the data plate infromation actually helps prevent theft or assist in the cars recovery. If we had all the data plate infromation, we would know from which car an engine or gearbox originated. This would be particulary helpful in the case of a stolen vehicle of which we have several reported. Note that we do not have the data information to locate the missing engine or gearbox. Even the body number would be helpful. Let all know the value of storing their data plate information as sort of an insurance policy. Let the Jaguar Owners use your site to their advantage.
Regards, Mike Powers
Comment by Michael Powers — June 2, 2011 @ 5:42 pm
Hi Roger,
The reality is there will always be some people that simply do not make sense, nor do they realize or appreciate how much work goes into this research!! When I started working on the C Type Register almost 20 years ago now, my main motivation was to “protect the marque”. I am now working on updating the C Type Register as well as adding the D Types, XKSS and Lightweight E Type to the book. My motive is still the same. There is absolutely no question, documenting these cars histories, whether in a book or in a fantastic website such as this, DOES indeed protect the marque. Once the continuous history is locked in, people cannot just build up a car and claim it to be genuine (at least and get away with it!)….it needs to be tied to the owners listed to establish any kind of credit. It is hard to understand some peoples logic, or lack thereof.
No matter how hard you try, there will be those that will criticize and throw rocks at you. Just let it roll off you and keep up the good work!!!
Best Regards,
Terry Larson
Comment by Terry Larson — June 2, 2011 @ 10:36 pm
I like the idea of being able to check a cars details ,but as owner of several cars find it anoying when someone else thinks it is ok for them to log details of cars they come accross in adds etc especially when wrong details are logged ,in the uk we have data protection act to stop a lot of this happening.I am a restorer and recently came accross another make a one owner car never logged with the marque owners club ,but when i advertised the car later, several peaple called wanting the details of chassis and body ,i questioned why and it turned out these peaple did not want to buy but inform the marque car club register of the car,I feel it is the choice of the new owner to let the car club know if they wish .so I like the site but feel unless you have an owners permission or are the owner you should not enter someone elses car details.
What should one do if they come accross a car that apparantly exists in two parts of the world and neither have full details ,shall we call it a twin ? seriously
regards Paul
Comment by Paul Gilmour — April 25, 2012 @ 4:15 pm